Subaru BRZ STI Concept and scion FR-s details

[Capitalandmotors]

http://jalopnik.com/5855164/subaru-brz-sti-concept-gives-first-look-at-subieyota

This bright blue backside belongs to the Subaru BRZ, Subie's variant of the Scion FR-S — or Toyota FT-86, depending on where you live. It's the right end to show given it's Subaru's first modern RWD sports car.

But don't expect the car to look like this when it really gets its "real reveal" at the Tokyo Motor Show. Apparently Subaru's stripped away every piece of real sheetmetal from the car and replaced it with tuned, flared and puffed-up concept crap that'll never be seen on the production car.

That said, we know from yesterday's mammoth spec drop that its fellow RWD cars are featherweights at 2662 pounds, powered by a 2.0-liter DOHC boxer four putting out around 200 horsepower.

Expect more from the Subaru BRZ, which for this non-unveiling, is being called the "Subaru BRZ Concept - STI." The we-know-someone-in-Japan-gossip-circle says the dash and extra three-letter nomenclature is good enough for an additional 100 horsepower. Giddy-up.

"Pure Handling Delight" is how Subaru describes the car, owing to its low-low center of gravity and proper RWD layout. The rumored almost 300-hp boxer four also doesn't hurt. It'll debut at the L.A. Auto Show later this month, where we're going to do our best to steal it.

Hear that Subaru? You better bring a battalion of security guards armed with tasers or we're going to Occupy Subaru! Ya hear us?!


Scion FR-S all the detailshttp://jalopnik.com/5854865/scion-fr+s-all-the-specs
            
  Scion FR-S: All the specs
Our friends over at FT86Club got their hands on a Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ training sheet and we finally have a look at the specs of the most anticipated sports car in a long time. Just expect some aspects to get lost in translation coming over the Pacific as a Scion FR-S.

The most anticipated statistic is weight, and this manual lists it as 1210kg (2662 pounds) for the base manual and 2706 pounds for the higher spec manual. An automatic adds 20kg in either trim level. Horsepower is listed as 147kw (200ps) / 200hp @7000rpm and torque as 205nm (151 lb/ft) @ 6600rpm.

The engine is a 1998cc DOHC boxer 4 that drinks unleaded from a 50 liter (13.2 gallon) tank. Toyota is listing the fuel consumption as 12.8 kilometers/liter for the lower trim coupe and 12.4km/l for the top trim model. This should be somewhat different from what the EPA sticker will read in the states, different units of measurement aside.

In terms of wheels and tires, the low spec model comes with 16s with a 205/55R16 tire and the top spec rides on 17s with a 215/45R17 tire. The suspension is struts up front and double wishbone in the rear.

The FT86club forum spots that the top trim gets a limited slip differential on both manual and auto transmissions, while the lower spec model only gets LSD on manuals.

Both trim levels get stability control and front passenger and front and rear curtain bags. The base car comes with halogen lights with optional HIDs, which are standard on the more expensive trim. The top trim level also gets LEDs up front, a leather steering wheel, 6 speakers (four more than the low spec), and white rev counter with shift light and sport pedals. The low spec only bets black dials. "Smart entry and start" also comes with the top trim. You can see what this will all look like in the scanned trim page.

Toyota offers up a comparison chart for the FT-86 in both trims against an MX-5, an RX-8, and a CR-Z, but we'll have to drive one of these things to know if it really delivers on the sports car handling the world's car enthusiasts have been waiting for.

[RedRoof2]

*yawn*

For some reason, I just can't get excited about it.  It's like trying to get excited about a Justin Bieber album.  Sure, he may be respected in some circles but I can't take him seriously and when stacked up against real heavyweights, he's quickly overshadowed and forgotten.  Kind of like this car will be.  I have that feeling.  They took too long, hyped it too much and in the end, under-delivered.  If I wanted a lightweight, nimble RWD car with the bugs already worked out, with turn-key racecar potential and great aftermarket support, I'd buy a miata.  If I wanted the ultimate lightweight RWD purist experience, I'd get an Elise.  If I wanted a RWD coupe with shitty fuel mileage, difficult to crack ECU and mechanical gremlins, but fantastic balance and rev-happy motor, the RX8 sounds just fine to me.  If I wanted one that kicked ass and had none of those issues, I'd buy an S2000.

Turning a Ken Block hat 1/3 to the side does not make a race car.  Their performance stats are grounded in what made cars fast in 1994.
200hp, 2700lbs...  that's basically my MR2.  That car was built two decades ago.  Knowing Toyota and Subaru's potential to fuck up cars in the first release with rental-car-soft suspensions and ho-hum tire and brake packages, I'm expecting this thing to really suck.  It already looks nothing like the concept pictures.

Yes, I did just shit all over a new product.

[TylerBeau]

Holy Shit. You just made the BRZ your bitch. Impressive!

[ipodwinner31]

i heard the subaru version was supposed to get more in the 300HP range? hmm..

[madlife]

i heard the subaru version was supposed to get more in the 300HP range? hmm..

Everything on Subaru's end is rumors.  Im wondering if the separation of the WRX/STi from the impreza could lead to a BRZ-STi.. who knows.  But Eric is right... It has the power/weight of an mr2,  just with 2 extra seats.   If it was a couple style hatchback, that would be a bonus {IMO},  gets 35mpg on regular gas,  sure that'll help justify only 200 HP.   But your still taking a stomping on performance.  When this was first announced, I was kinda hoping for a car that would run along the lines of a Genesis coupe, 335i, g37. 

I still think its dumb for Toyota and Subaru to both offer the car in RWD / NA.  One should go forced induction or AWD to separate their markets some.   It reminds me of the Saturn sky / Pontiac Solstice,  as well as every other car GM brands use to make.

[TheBigChill]

 Fuck this car.  It's been how long, and they still don't have firm specs on either version...?  As stated before, I've lost all interest even though I was never considering buying one.  Now they're showing STi concepts ?  That's hilarious. 

 I have huge doubts that this car will weigh in at 2600-2700 lbs.  A manual Ford Fiesta 3-door weighs 2575..  A Mini Cooper S weighs in at 2680.  I know the BRZ or FRS is going to be a smaller car, but I just don't see it cutting enough weight to meet these predictions.

[phong]

Lots of negativity in here...how about something positive:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1112_2013_subaru_brz_prototype_first_drive/

If they don't offer a version with 250 or greater horsepower in the future this thing will never enjoy commercial success.

[RedRex]

Fuck this car.  It's been how long, and they still don't have firm specs on either version...?  As stated before, I've lost all interest even though I was never considering buying one.  Now they're showing STi concepts ?  That's hilarious. 

 I have huge doubts that this car will weigh in at 2600-2700 lbs.  A manual Ford Fiesta 3-door weighs 2575..  A Mini Cooper S weighs in at 2680.  I know the BRZ or FRS is going to be a smaller car, but I just don't see it cutting enough weight to meet these predictions.

GIVE ME AN AWD TURBO DIESEL, SUBARU!


I refrained from posting this press release because it's automotive vapor ware. Who knows how it will finally turn out? What is Subaru trying to accomplish with this car? I might be interested in an awd coupe, with some real power, or maybe a lighter rwd with decent power, but there are lots of choices. Let's have something unique, not vanilla. 2700lbs, that's my mini. No way.

[RedRoof2]

What is Subaru trying to accomplish with this car?

Generate a lot of OOOOHS and AAAHS, get the fanbois talking about it on the forums and create a grassroots-level hype that will become mainstream, to the point that the day the doors are flung open to sell the first models, people will rush in and buy blindly.  I really think Subaru's banking on iPhone and Playstation-style release lines.  People sleeping outside car dealerships to get their hands on one before it's sold.  I think whoever sold Subaru on this line of bullshit marketing is laughing all the way to the bank.  The car's going to fail hideously because it's already promised too much and won't deliver on ANY of it.  It's essentially claiming to be the Subaru enthusiast's automotive Jesus.  It'll be the car everyone wanted them to build.  Supposedly. 

I vote +1 on the Turbodiesel AWD model.  That's a car I could use today, like right now.  Not this pie-in-the-sky RWD dorifto flatbrimmer bullshit.  It's got direct injection.  It's not even going to be able to rev that high.  215/45 tires?  Why not just stick wagon wheels on it. 

[RedRex]

+1 karma for you amigo.

[stylesrex]

hyundai genesis coupe is a better car than the FT86, BRZ, G37, 370z and if were made by a slightly more coveted manufacturer we'd all be driving one. true story

[TheBigChill]

I really think Subaru's banking on iPhone and Playstation-style release lines.  People sleeping outside car dealerships to get their hands on one before it's sold.

 This is how I'm feeling as well.  Subaru needs to understand that this isn't a $45 PS2 game, or even $500 iPhone.  In a shit economy, flocks of people aren't going to just run out and buy a $25,000 car based on hype.  I want to be interested, but I'm just not.  I want to be positive, but it just doesn't seem like a seller or even a stand-out.  I'm sick of looking at concepts & speculation.  Give me one reason to buy this over a Genesis Coupe or CPO 128i, please.

 Give me an AWD Turbo Coupe that's not a Porsche, Audi, TSI/GSX, or Nissan GT-R.  Subaru made a car like this 25 years ago: The late 80's RX 1.8 Turbo AWD Coupe.  By making the BRZ & FT86 RWD, you've immediately reduced the amount of potential buyers.  This car is surely going to be marketed toward the early 20-somethings, and for those that live where measurable snow is common, you either need to own two cars or stick with FWD/AWD.  Most 23 year olds that I know don't have the $$ for two cars.

[deadlydave]

I came just to say that FWD sucks, and even though this is a slap in the face to some loyalists, at least they are doing it with the right drive wheels.

[RedRoof2]

hyundai genesis coupe is a better car than the FT86, BRZ, G37, 370z and if were made by a slightly more coveted manufacturer we'd all be driving one. true story

+1

Hyundai is fast becoming said coveted manufacturer.  I've driven the Genesis sedan and coupe before.  I am very impressed.

Nevermind the fact that the 2.0L uses the same block/bottom end as the Evo X's 4b11T.  True story.

Most 23 year olds that I know don't have the $$ for two cars.

I did and paid severely for that mistake.  Knowing what I know now and looking back on everything i've done, I'd have rather bought a motorcycle back then instead of a 2nd car.  I could've been rocking a Ducati 1198 by now and a sensibly fun daily driver like a WRX or even Civic Si sedan.  Best of both worlds, tons of fuel economy, none of the bullshit.  The MR2 was fun but I'm done with putting big money into fast or semi-quick cars, especially ones that double as a daily.  Subaru is violating the very rule they helped forge:  That performance, practicality, reliability and economy can all be had in one vehicle.

[hydrochloric]

Subaru is violating the very rule they helped forge:  That performance, practicality, reliability and economy can all be had in one vehicle.

They had already done this when they split the WRX/STi line from the standard models.

I like THE IDEA of the FR-s/BRZ/FT-86, but I don't think Subaru should be selling it (though it explains why they split the normal/performance).  Apart from the fanboi-ness, I agree with Chill, the fact that it isn't AWD (or an option) is weird coming from a company like Subaru.  But goodness knows Toyota needs a good, proper, fast fun car again (a la Supra, Celica, MR2), so the combined development should have resulted in a new sporty Toyota coupe, and technical stuff for Subaru (direct inject, for example).

It is worth noting that splitting the brand and creating two very separate design ideals HAS worked.  I may not like them, but Scion has done really well in the US market, and the whole marketing scheme behind them was "They're cool."  So it's not impossible that a Subaru performance brand/line could work, notably BECAUSE it could allow them to branch out into RWD, etc., but I feel like they should have established the new performance models first (And lost the friggin' Block-o-philes ).

[skyphix]

Until the Forester Diesel makes its way over here, I won't be buying a NEW Subaru.

The Genesis looks good, but the same thing that kept me away from a Cobra keeps me away from it: Not AWD and if I'm going to have a "seasonal" car it definitely won't be less than 50 years old.

[rshaw123]

+1

Hyundai is fast becoming said coveted manufacturer.  I've driven the Genesis sedan and coupe before.  I am very impressed.

Hyundai also has the idea of having a fun faster car that still is family oriented. The Sonata Turbo is a great example. power and family oriented

[hydrochloric]

Until the Forester Diesel makes its way over here, I won't be buying a NEW Subaru.

The Genesis looks good, but the same thing that kept me away from a Cobra keeps me away from it: Not AWD and if I'm going to have a "seasonal" car it definitely won't be less than 50 years old.

The problem with Subaru Diesels (having ridden in one overseas before I could drive) is they have comparatively low torque at low RPMs.  No idea why, I just remember it took some time to really get up and go.

Admittedly, that was a few years ago, so it's quite possible they've gotten better (plus, I don't remember if that one was turbo), but if I were getting a diesel, I would get an Audi/VW.  They really got it right first, IMO.

I think the idea behind the Genesis idea is that it's a competitor to the BRZ, not necessarily an all-year-round car.

[skyphix]

I drive an NA Subaru with 195,000 miles on it. Do you think I care how much get up and go it has? I want good fuel economy in the right package (AWD, standard transmission, ground clearance, small SUV) and potentially flexible fuel options in a car that doesn't wind up in the dealership every 10,000 miles because I'm not driving it under optimal conditions.

I've driven a 2011 Diesel VW and while I liked it a lot (and quite possibly will pick one up for my wife to commute with once she graduates and has a job) it also didn't have much low end and, while I'm experienced driving many, many different stick shift cars, I found it so lacking in low end torque that it was difficult to launch without feeling like I was revving it far too high, so they're really no different. I like the Tiguan quite a bit and its pretty close to what I'm looking for... except that there is no TDI option.

Sorry, this is pretty OT. My point is that Subaru, who I have to imagine sells more cars in wintery parts of the country/world than in summery areas, would do better catering to their current buyers by bringing something that VW has proven will sell very well to the US, rather than trying to spread themselves so thin by expanding to a market that already has strong contenders in it. I understand the idea of increasing your market base, but don't alienate your current customer base while doing it (by not offering an AWD option, at the very least).

[peter32892]

Subaru is not trying to cater to there typical market, selling another awd vehicle won't increase sales much. Subaru has said time and time again that this car is to branch into other markets to gain a stronger presence in different parts of the country besides the snow belt.

[hydrochloric]

I drive an NA Subaru with 195,000 miles on it. Do you think I care how much get up and go it has? I want good fuel economy in the right package (AWD, standard transmission, ground clearance, small SUV) and potentially flexible fuel options in a car that doesn't wind up in the dealership every 10,000 miles because I'm not driving it under optimal conditions.

I've driven a 2011 Diesel VW and while I liked it a lot (and quite possibly will pick one up for my wife to commute with once she graduates and has a job) it also didn't have much low end and, while I'm experienced driving many, many different stick shift cars, I found it so lacking in low end torque that it was difficult to launch without feeling like I was revving it far too high, so they're really no different. I like the Tiguan quite a bit and its pretty close to what I'm looking for... except that there is no TDI option.

Sorry, this is pretty OT. My point is that Subaru, who I have to imagine sells more cars in wintery parts of the country/world than in summery areas, would do better catering to their current buyers by bringing something that VW has proven will sell very well to the US, rather than trying to spread themselves so thin by expanding to a market that already has strong contenders in it. I understand the idea of increasing your market base, but don't alienate your current customer base while doing it (by not offering an AWD option, at the very least).

You have to rev the nuts off ANY diesel to get moving.  I have a friend who got a 2011 Golf TDi, took me and another friend for a ride, he stalled it about 89056908792340698238907369 times.  But he was used to a new Beetle.

I drive a NA Subaru with 241,000 miles on it.  But I like the ability to, you know, get away quickly from a light (say I need to hop in the next lane over because I didn't know which lane I needed, and there's a huge line behind), which even a Gas NA provides.

You're right about snow.  I think it's something like 2/3 of all Subarus sold in the US are sold in New England....  And 9/10 of that are in VT, I think.   But:

Subaru is not trying to cater to there typical market, selling another awd vehicle won't increase sales much. Subaru has said time and time again that this car is to branch into other markets to gain a stronger presence in different parts of the country besides the snow belt.

I agree, and like I said in a previous post, the idea of branching off isn't a bad idea, assuming they maintain their existing customer base.  Lots of guys here are bitching about how stupid the BRZ is, but...  It's not like they're replacing the STi with it.  The BRZ isn't kicking out WRXs, so if you don't like... Don't buy it.  If it gets Subaru more money to spend on development, what's the problem?  Sure, it may not follow tradition, but Porsche "purists" hate on 944s, and Porsche makes the Cayenne!  Did you see them yelling about how they would never buy another Porsche when the Cayenne was introduced (I'm sure some loonies did, just like with the Ferrari FF)?

I'm just getting really tired of hearing about the back and forth on this BRZ.  I like the idea.  I don't like that Subaru is marketing it, not just Toyota/Scion.  I like that Subaru is trying new stuff, but I don't like that the new stuff is aimed at flat-brimmers.

IT'S A CAR THAT NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY, AND IT HAS SOME FEATURES THAT ARE NEW, AND SOME FEATURES THAT AREN'T.

Can we be done with this now?

[skyphix]

...
IT'S A CAR THAT NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY, AND IT HAS SOME FEATURES THAT ARE NEW, AND SOME FEATURES THAT AREN'T.

Can we be done with this now?

You realize that if we actually went using these standards, this (and every other forum) would be very, very quiet?

Also, See the end of my post, its more about breaking from their tried and true mantra of "AWD AWD AWD!!!11" by offering a car that isn't even available as an AWD vehicle, and not only that, but building a car that isn't offered as AWD, thus alienating their long-time-good market. Nawm'sayin'?

[TheBigChill]

 

  so if you don't like....Don't buy it.  If it gets Subaru more money to spend on development, what's the problem?

 If what gets them more money to spend on development ?  Are you suggesting that this venture into unfamiliar territory is going to result in fantastic sales ?  Sales so significantly positive right from the get-go that they decide to make tiny RWD N/A Coupes standard in the Subaru stable ?  I don't see it happening.  I can only imagine how much money they've spent thus far on developing this car.  If it doesn't do well right from the release, say bye-bye to the BRZ.  A car that most folks, from what I can tell, already recognize as a miss.  Subaru should know their audience at this point: Grown ass adults that need reliable, practical, and utilitarian cars for all season usuage, OR, AWD forced induction enthusiasts that enjoy not only the practicality but the "mod-ability" of Subarus more performanced based forced induction cars (WRX & STi).  I just don't think that the people that this is marketed to, have any reason to buy it over other cars.  I applaud Subaru for trying something new, but I think they went too far outside their own box too quickly. 


 

IT'S A CAR THAT NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY, AND IT HAS SOME FEATURES THAT ARE NEW, AND SOME FEATURES THAT AREN'T.

Can we be done with this now?

                 

^ No, we can't be done.  This is an internet forum, a discussion forum.  All we do is talk about and debate things.  If I get bored with hating on the BRZ, I'll switch it up and start telling you why you should cut-out your little sister's kidney while she sleeps, and sell it on the black market to buy the new BRZ.  Because you only need one BRZ and she only needs one kidney.


 I can't ignore the TDI talk, but only because I'm perplexed.  I admit, I've NEVER driven a new TDI, but one would think that a car which makes 238tq @ 1700 RPM's, should be easy to motivate at low speeds and low RPM's. 

[skyphix]

 I can't ignore the TDI talk, but only because I'm perplexed.  I admit, I've NEVER driven a new TDI, but one would think that a car which makes 238tq @ 1700 RPM's, should be easy to motivate at low speeds and low RPM's. 

You'd think, but the instant shut off if you feather the clutch out at anything below 2000 rpm (what I do in my Subaru during low speed stop-and-go like at a roundabout) will tell you otherwise. It has a bunch of punch once you get rolling and the clutch is out... or if you rev it up and side step the clutch to get the big torquey smoke show from the front wheels. The shut off is so dramatic it almost feels like its electronic in nature. You do eventually get past it, but I swear I stalled my friends Jetta 15 times backing out of a parking space and working my way out of a parking lot.

[spoolordie]

Im tired of hearing all you sissy's complaining about a car that doesnt have AWD, who fucking cares. Yeah we get snow, sometimes alot or sometimes its 50 degrees in january. what happened to buying a car that looked good and felt comfortable, and all the little things you don't like about the car, let the go by the wayside.  "But i dont wanna own 2 cars" Stop being a girl and save some money or be a bitch and drive you NA 100hp fiesta to and from work (ps i know the fiesta isnt 100hp) and wish you had a cool car.

There is not a 30K car that i could buy that has everything i wanted from the factory. Every car i look at has some issue or styling qualm with me.

Good for subaru a RWD coupe. Oh but were gonna bitch and moan about the performance. Its not turbo boo woo turbo it later.  Why do we mod cars because they suck ass from the factory. The WRX is a jack of all trades but a master of none.  Half the people on this board are IT people who dont even use the full potential of the car and daily drive it.  Also all you big power queers, go out and drive a miata or an late 80's early 90's RWD car and tell me they are not a blast, sure they are not fast, but with alittle work they can be.

You retards are complaining about a car that isn't even in mass production, and barely has any info on it.  Let the car come out, then you can bitch.  Hell id buy the FR-s or the BRZ why because i can and it might be a fun platform.  Or it might blow ass we wont know until it comes out.  You want speed get to 30mph on the highway and 5th gear WOT you car to redline 

ps all you tards that want turbo and AWD......hmmmm theres a car called the WRX and another one the STI  get one (they both suck)