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May 23, 2012, 06:35:22 AM
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Author Topic: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?  (Read 3449 times)

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Offline flutyr525

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light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« on: January 22, 2009, 12:47:18 AM »
ok so i already have a perrin light weight crank pulley that has yet to be installed. i need to replace my clutch relatively soon. i was talking to a buddy of mine and he said that its not a good idea to run both a light weight crank pulley and a light weight flywheel. is this a good recommendation or is it resonably safe to have both installed? if it is one or the other...what is more beneficial?
2011 vw jetta SE
2002 ford explorer XLS

Offline jays05

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 08:40:55 AM »
I had a lightweight flywheel on my STI and took it off.  The problem was that I stalled the car all the time and the launches were horrible - it would either bog or spin then bog.  Removing rotating mass has a profound effect on performance.  Removing mass north of the transmission can cause drivability problems.  Removing mass south of the transmission (driveshaft, wheels, tires, etc) is pure joy, all the benefits with none of the negatives.

Offline flutyr525

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 11:31:57 AM »
I had a lightweight flywheel on my STI and took it off.  The problem was that I stalled the car all the time and the launches were horrible - it would either bog or spin then bog.  Removing rotating mass has a profound effect on performance.  Removing mass north of the transmission can cause drivability problems.  Removing mass south of the transmission (driveshaft, wheels, tires, etc) is pure joy, all the benefits with none of the negatives.

so your suggesting neither? and should i just go with a stock flywheel with a an aftermarket clutch? thanks :mrgreen:
2011 vw jetta SE
2002 ford explorer XLS

Offline jays05

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 11:58:00 AM »
I have a slightly lighter pulley on my car and I'm happy with it.  I went with the ATI Super Damper, it's about 2lbs lighter than stock.  But pulleys are a whole other discussion and there is a lot of debate about if the pulley is a harmonic balancer or not (subaru says it is not, but everybody who cuts one apart says hmm, this looks like a harmonic balancer).

I really think you should stick with the stock flywheel, just get it resurfaced for $50 or whatever.  I am really happy since I went back to a stock flywheel.

There are also some other issues with running both a lightweight flywheel and a lightweight pulley.  Some people report misfire problems.

Offline deadlydave

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 12:46:03 PM »
I have a slightly lighter pulley on my car and I'm happy with it.  I went with the ATI Super Damper, it's about 2lbs lighter than stock.  But pulleys are a whole other discussion and there is a lot of debate about if the pulley is a harmonic balancer or not (subaru says it is not, but everybody who cuts one apart says hmm, this looks like a harmonic balancer).
I was considering the ATI also. 

Quote
There are also some other issues with running both a lightweight flywheel and a lightweight pulley.  Some people report misfire problems.
Aussiedan had issues with his lighter flywheel, It was either falsely reading misfire or knock, I cannot remember which.

Offline Capitalandmotors

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 01:52:40 PM »
Lightweight flywheels can tend to cause misfire issues, the problem is the engine accels and decels faster then the ecu can proccess the cam/crank sensor signals this leads to a cel for random misfires. i had this problem running a act strip flywheel, and a lightweight crank pulley.

also i hear bad things about running both due to less dampening and causing lower end bearing damage.

Offline flutyr525

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2009, 02:59:31 PM »
gotcha. ok thanks for all the info. i have a perrin lightweight pulley but havent had it installed yet. do anyone have experience with these?
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Offline jays05

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 05:51:33 PM »
I was considering the ATI also. 

I am not sure the ATI balancer is worth it unless you have a built motor.  Money would be better spent elsewhere.  And Fluidampr makes a balancer for our cars now which should be more effective than the ATI, at the same price.

I have also heard things about bearing problems with lightweight pulleys.  However nobody has any proof and the best thing I found was a study that Cobb did ages ago on the 2.5RS which found 5th order vibrations in the crank (imagine 5 ocean waves combining into one big wave, same sort of thing).  I think it was Phil from Element Tuning, he ran a perrin lightweight pulley on his time attack car with a 35r and the stock motor, thousands of race miles, and never had a failure.

Offline crAppAchic0

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 06:06:18 PM »
Lightweight flywheels can tend to cause misfire issues, the problem is the engine accels and decels faster then the ecu can proccess the cam/crank sensor signals this leads to a cel for random misfires. i had this problem running a act strip flywheel, and a lightweight crank pulley.

also i hear bad things about running both due to less dampening and causing lower end bearing damage.

Second all of that- the reduced dampening results in more overall noise/vibration which can trigger sensors- also the drivability is usually negatively affected, bogging at launch, stalling easy, blah blah blah... all a pain if you don't really feel like 'compensating' for it, i.e., revving the crap out of the motor, praying the clutch grabs before it burns out, praying that your drivetrain holds together for the shock...

And the lower end bearings are also negatively affected- you can (attempt to) compensate for it by getting closer tolerances and having bearings oversized/machined/whatnot to tighten up the tolerances, but you hopefully know exactly what you doing in terms of clearances versus oil viscosity (I remember Dom having a handy dandy write-up on oil viscosities vs. bearings/clearances somewhere here)... blah blah blah.  It's extra vibration from reduced dampening that the assembly was never designed to tolerate.

Eh, it's something I like to complain about in general though- you're making it do something it wasn't designed to; it's gonna wear out/break faster than 'normal'.  So, you can upgrade parts/maintain parts/whatnot to prevent it from happening, or just suck it up and have spares when it does go bad.  That being said, I've just learned to keep as many spares as I can afford to...  granted it's a honda, so spares are cheap.

Sorry if that comes across as negative sounding, bad day at work. :)
-Lyndon

'00 SRP Impreza 2.5RS
'95 BMW 318Ti
and other assorted pieces...

Offline flutyr525

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 08:13:54 PM »
thanks for all the input. good to know.  :mrgreen:
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Offline crAppAchic0

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 11:06:33 PM »
thanks for all the input. good to know.  :mrgreen:

Honestly, though- all complaints aside, if you don't mind the 'maintenance', I'd do both!  The engine revs to the moon so much faster!
-Lyndon

'00 SRP Impreza 2.5RS
'95 BMW 318Ti
and other assorted pieces...

Offline flutyr525

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2009, 10:40:46 AM »
Honestly, though- all complaints aside, if you don't mind the 'maintenance', I'd do both!  The engine revs to the moon so much faster!

well i already have the lightweight pulley so ill start with that and then when i do the clutch in a couple months ill think about the flywheel as well. thanks :mrgreen:
2011 vw jetta SE
2002 ford explorer XLS

Offline Photofixer

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2009, 12:00:30 PM »
I put a Perrin Lightweight Crank Pulley on my Car.  I Think it improved Throttle Response, Increased mph by like 2mph, and I feel the car had a little bit extra go. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444518 Good link at Nasioc.

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Offline byroll01

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 02:02:03 PM »
My wagon has a stock pulley and super light jun flywheel.  I love it. 

I was just talking to Dom about getting a light weight pulley for the STi's new engine and he said to stick with stock.  I forgot what he said exactly but it was pretty much don't take any chances for that little gain.
Byron
'05 E55

Offline Photofixer

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 02:47:48 PM »
My wagon has a stock pulley and super light jun flywheel.  I love it. 

I was just talking to Dom about getting a light weight pulley for the STi's new engine and he said to stick with stock.  I forgot what he said exactly but it was pretty much don't take any chances for that little gain.

I hear its ok to run  a pulley on the EJ205, but not with a lightweight flywheel.
2005 Saab 92x Aero Protuned Stage II 5MT  1 of 1937 Aeros Car #3088 of 7,839

Offline jays05

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2009, 02:52:37 PM »
My wagon has a stock pulley and super light jun flywheel.  I love it. 

I was just talking to Dom about getting a light weight pulley for the STi's new engine and he said to stick with stock.  I forgot what he said exactly but it was pretty much don't take any chances for that little gain.

Byron...  get one of these :)  it's lighter and better.



Offline byroll01

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2009, 07:29:59 PM »
it pretty much comes down to personal preference.  I do what Dom tells me... haha
Byron
'05 E55

Offline byroll01

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2009, 07:31:59 PM »
yeah Jay, I was thinking about it.  After I read you got one I looked into them...then I guess I forgot about it.  What's a good price on them?  I thought I saw $250 or so?
Byron
'05 E55

Offline jays05

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2009, 07:37:06 PM »
I bought mine right from ATI.  I think it was $350 ?

I emailed Ron @ Raw Performance right after he built my motor, said I was thinking about buying one, and asked if it was worth it.  His response was

Quote
Yes, the ATI balancers are worth every penny.  If you want to get one, I recommend it.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 07:38:58 PM by jays05 »

Offline flutyr525

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2009, 06:13:45 PM »
well i already have the pulley and dont need/plan on replacing the clutch for a few months anyways so well c how i like the pulley and possibly go a different route. :mrgreen:

STi's new engine

??? whats dom building you now? :evil:
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2002 ford explorer XLS

Offline byroll01

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2009, 10:40:44 PM »
pullin' out all the stops...
Byron
'05 E55

Offline flutyr525

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2009, 05:13:41 PM »
lol! cant wait. rebuilding ur current engine or starting fresh...whats the ETA of this beast?
2011 vw jetta SE
2002 ford explorer XLS

Offline jays05

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2009, 05:42:37 PM »
pullin' out all the stops...

details...  are you throwing in a bigger turbo?  cams, headwork, etc?

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2009, 09:16:22 PM »
yes, yes, yes, billet crank, custom pistons/rods, 8000+ red line.
Byron
'05 E55

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Re: light weight crank pulley vs. light weight flywheel?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2009, 09:19:03 PM »
plan is to drive her out to Washington in April. DOm and I are gonna pull/install the motor.  The new one will be broke in on the engine dyno so we will immediately go tune it.  I'm gonna fly home and let dom finish it up.  Then he can ship it back when it's 100%  That's about it.
Byron
'05 E55
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