In case anyone wants more info about the ViPec standalone I'm running and all the options it offers, here's a C&P from the thread on NASIOC wherein Mike breaks it down:
Some examples of this extra timing control are:
The ability to eliminate timing drift entirely via an adjustable ignition delay function. This means that when I say I want 20 degrees of timing advance, the coils fire at 20 degrees before TDC whether the car is at idle or 7000 RPM. We check and adjust this with a timing light until it's right on. Obviously this is in addition to being able to set a global timing offset. While the 2L WRX doesn't have an adjustable CAS or distributor and the cam and crank sensors are fixed mounted, each car is slightly different than the next. In this case a timing offset of 1 degree was required to get the timing synced up just right.
Timing advance is adjustable to 0.1 of a degree.
Tables are fully adjustable from the number of rows and columns to the axes, data points etc. For example, you can start and drive a car with less than 10 cells filled in between the main fuel and timing tables, work up from there for a detailed tune, then reduce extraneous areas and allow the ECU to interpolate between areas. This allows you to have tons of detail where you need it, and reduce the amount of cells you need to adjust when making changes in other areas where you don't.
These ECUs are far more flexible than the others mentioned. Here are just a few of the trims I have set up on this car and how I'm using them.
Instead of a simple 2D IAT vs. ignition timing trim map I've set up a 3D IAT vs load ignition trimming map:
This allows me to reduce timing advance under higher loads if IATs get too hot. The more they go up and the higher the load, the more timing is pulled to avoid detonation. Since this is load based it doesn't have to affect idle and cruise areas. I also use this to adjust for high air density under load when it's real cold out.
Instead of a simple 2D coolant temperature vs. ignition timing trim map I've set up a 3D coolant temperature vs load ignition trimming:
This allows me to reduce ignition timing under load if the car starts to overheat to prevent detonation without reducing advance at light loads so EGTs stay down and help the engine cool down quicker (if it's going to cool down at all). I also use this to add timing advance near idle during cold warmups which helps the car run smooth when cold.
I've set up the rev limiter and overboost protection functions to be coolant temperature dependent. This gives you a bit more functionality than just plugging simple values in for these things.
It "reminds" the driver not to floor it or rev the car way out when it's not warmed up. As the car warms up, these limits progressively increase up to where they are during normal operation.
It also serves as an overheating warning and protection method. When the car gets too hot I reduce the rev limiter and boost limits progressively as the overheating condition gets worse to serve as another warning that something is up if the driver hasn't noticed the car is too hot, and forces them to stop beating on the car so it can cool down some.
I set the protection functions so they're non intrusive and will not kick on unless something is really wrong.
I've also set up a 4D ignition table using vehicle speed and manifold pressure as the axes to reduce timing at higher loads in 1st gear for a little tranny protection and at real high speeds for a little abuse protection. At real high speeds AND when over 15 psi I pull some timing out. This isn't a foolproof solution against one of the harshest things people do with their cars (top end runs), but it helps. In first gear the car may not see 15+ psi so I roll the trim in starting at a lower boost pressure on a car like this to take a little strain off the transmission while keeping the turbo spooled so full power can be put down in second gear. This is also useful in traction limited vehicles as a function to get you close to the traction limit and then let traction control take care of the rest. Oh yea...this ECU has that too. I did set up gear calculation so I could have set this table up as gear vs. manifold pressure, but with wheelspin and changing wheels/tires which could affect gear sensing I've found that doesn't work as well in some situations.
Basically the possibilities are just about endless compared to systems like AEM and Hydra. With the ViPec a great deal of functionality is there and each tuner can use as much or as little of it as they chose. The tuner's ability to think of good ways to make use of the flexibility determines how useful the system is, rather than being stuck with everything pre-programmed a certain way on other systems, usually with limited functionality. My mechanics do the wrenching here so I pretty much tune cars 6 days a week. When you tune cars that much you really appreciate being able to make an engine management system do what you want and it gives me an opportunity to implement functions that I've found useful over the years.
and...
Like I said, if someone isn't comfortable using all the features they don't have to. I've never used all of them on a single car.
It's safe to assume that a car that's overheating shouldn't run full timing advance in boost because it will be more prone to detonating. I don't need to induce the condition on each individual car to know that. If I pull a degree more than the bare minimum to avoid knock while the car is overheating does it really matter? This isn't an F1 car where maximum effort is required under all conditions. I simply implement this as a safety measure.
I only added some timing around idle when the car is real cold. That gets rolled off completely by 80 F.
I use IAT timing corrections that have worked well in boost on other subarus and other cars in general with other standalones, tuned stock ECUs etc. Being able to implement them only while over a certain amount of boost just makes it do exactly what I want instead of almost doing what I want by decreasing timing across the board when over a certain IAT. Again I don't tune for maximum effort on the edge of knock under all possible conditions in a temperature controlled room.
Quote:
I'm all for spending money, but this seems like a waste to me......IMO he should have gone with a nice cam instead and been able to hold at least 315whp at redline....or taken that $2000 and put it towards a clutch and transmission so he could actually utilize the power.
And i can only imagine the $$ spent on dyno time.....making tables from scratch and all.
Its a great setup and im sure the owners happy, but i would have thought a clutch, tranny and cam would be significantly higher on any wrx owners priority list than a full standalone.....especially when utilizing a stock location turbo.
The cam upgrade to the stock STI cams while the engine was already being build is super cheap since they were used cams. It was done as a "might as well" type of deal and spending the money for new aftermarket cams was out of the question. There's always more that can be done, but more wasn't necessary to meet his goals and you have to stop somewhere.
The stock ECU was detecting false knock. It picked up around 50 foot lbs of torque on our dyno with this ECU because I could set the timing where I wanted it without the ECU thinking something was wrong. In the future after the driveline and injector upgrades I'm sure he'll have us crank it up a bit, but the car already makes more power than he was building towards.
I'm pretty confident you're assuming the tuning cost him more than it did. I tune standalones at a reasonable flat rate which includes the tuning, dyno time, road testing, and support after the tune. He didn't ask me to tune these additional tables and unless he's read what I added this morning he probably doesn't know they exist. I take that upon myself because I'm very particular when I tune cars and I want them to come out as well as they can from drivability to reliability/consistency to power considering the customer's requested margin of safety and so on. You're absolutely right about the time involved. I spend a lot of hours on standalones over multiple days, but this car runs better than stock. It starts instantly like a stock car even when stone cold in 20 degree weather like we've been having here. It idles well at my targets depending on coolant temperature, falls to idle very nicely, uses closed loop trimming when out of boost and over a certain temperature so it will get gas mileage like it did on a tuned stock ECU, etc.
Everyone's build goals, usage and budget are different. In this case we knew we'd hit his power goal without aftermarket cams. We did suggest a heavier duty clutch, but he wasn't ready for a built tranny or 6 speed as that's a big expense which a lot of people have to put off, so he decided on a clutch that wouldn't engage as violently as some of the higher capacity ones for a little piece of mind. It also wouldn't make sense to get a big nasty WRX clutch when the gears would give out long before the clutch and you may put a 6 speed in the car later anyways. I understand his logic and given the situation his choices make sense to me.
Topic: ViPec standalone ECU (Read 228 times)