2008 Impreza 2.5 Synchronizer trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2008 SILVER BULLET]

Hey My Syncro might be going, and I just went to Subaru in saratoga, and they were telling me that, If they find that I reved over 5000 and dumped it on the ECU, then they wont cover it .... does anyone know if it is covered under my warranty?... 31,500mi on it.... and does the syncro record all high revs? can I flash my ECU?..
 
PLS REPLY thanks,
                          Phil

[Kavik]

   I assume from your reaction that there's a good chance they're going to find that you did that?

they can (and will) deny anything that they can remotely claim as being 'abusive'.  Frankly, I'm surprised their threshold is so high on that one.

As far as I know, flashing changes settings but won't clear logs like that, I may be wrong on that one though

[stylesrex]

Hey My Syncro might be going, and I just went to Subaru in saratoga, and they were telling me that, If they find that I reved over 5000 and dumped it on the ECU, then they wont cover it .... does anyone know if it is covered under my warranty?... 31,500mi on it.... and does the syncro record all high revs? can I flash my ECU?..
 
PLS REPLY thanks,
                          Phil

Of course they won't cover abuse.  Abuse would include 5000+ rpm clutch dumps, or dumping the clutch for any matter. Think about it, did subaru themselves go to your car get in it and rev to 5k rpm and then sidestep the clutch? No.

Can they tell abuse from records on the ecu? idk.  If the ecu stored that data then yes.  Perhaps subaru has a computer that can pull information like that from a secure storage space in the ecu.  It is not possible with open source unless you're logging while the abuse was performed.

So, if they can tell it from a computer scan, you're fucked.  The other way to check for damage from abuse would be to inspect your transmission.  Sign of abuse are evident under inspection of parts.  If it is deemed abuse then you will have to pay for teardown, and putting back together.  Any repair work would also be at the expense of the owner.


goodluck

[deadlydave]

Center Subaru in CT claimed they could do it.  This story was relayed to me by the salesman(who wasn't a jackass).  Some kid brought in his dad's LGT, wasn't running right.  They plugged it in and found an RPM spike indicitive of a 5th to 2nd downshift, an over-rev of redline +2k revs.  "You can tell your dad, or we can" was the service manager's response.

[deadlydave]

and does the syncro record all high revs? can I flash my ECU?

A reflash won't help.  If you're revving to 5k while in gear, they can't hold that against you, if you rev to 5k while clutched in they might.

[Kavik]

yeah, it's not the first I've heard of them pulling logs for warantee work either.  Dunno if it's actually in the ecu or in a seperate "black box" type setup.  I hear a lot of manufacturers are doing similar thing now so they can see what causes a problem

Center Subaru in CT claimed they could do it.  This story was relayed to me by the salesman(who wasn't a jackass).  Some kid brought in his dad's LGT, wasn't running right.  They plugged it in and found an RPM spike indicitive of a 5th to 2nd downshift, an over-rev of redline +2k revs.  "You can tell your dad, or we can" was the service manager's response.

  that's awesome

[FastfreddyRs]

yes they can see what your car is doing aka "black box"

this is in newer cars mostly 05 and up.

subaru spent a ton of money when WRX hit the US, with whinney owners saying my trans broke "i don't know how this happened" most cases where 100% abuse, that is why they are covering themselves with this new technology. 

Sorry if you beat your car and launch it, or slam gears, it is your fault. Like the counsler said, it's not like someone from subaru got in your car and beat on it. You did

[Kavik]

and not to turn this into a 'beat up on silver bullet thread', but.......you had another post about the grinding a while back, is it safe to assume you didn't mess with it or change the fluid yourself since they're looking at it now?

and your other thread about how your 2.5i needs so much more power...............did you ever end up adding any power mods?  that's going to play a part in this too

[deadlydave]

Perhaps subaru has a computer that can pull information like that from a secure storage space in the ecu.  It is not possible with open source

My knowledge of embedded systems is pretty limited but this is what I would assume.

I love used cars.

[RedRoof2]

a.) Whether the computer can record datalogs or not is a moot point now.  Even if they dropped the 5k/clutch dump line as bait to gauge your reaction, you're still fucked now.  They expect damage to crop up.  If I were the service writer, I would.

b.) It makes no sense to claim a 5k clutch dump damaged a synchro.  The synchros match shaft speeds, not gear-loads when torque is applied to the shaft.  Technically whether or not you sidestep the clutch makes no difference to the synchro.  It only cares whether or not you engage that gear.  It would be the same as saying "We aren't looking for whether or not you actually launched at 5k,  we only care whether or not you selected first gear at that RPM."  Tooth or shaft damage is another story.  I could understand doing aggressive downshifts, forcing it into gear and powershifting the transmission, but a launch?  The clues don't add up, batman.

c.) Be honest.  If you were abusing the tranny and it's acting nasty, they aren't going to cover it.  A fluid change with something expensive and nice wouldn't hurt and might actually help the grinding if it's not too far gone.  If little metal bits come out, then you know you're fucked.  It would be an outstanding opportunity for you to learn how to disassemble a 5mt and replace synchros.  Perhaps a stronger gearset would be in order as well, if abuse was the culprit of the synchros dying.

[Kavik]

should a stronger tranny really be a concern on a 2.5i?

[Kavik]

out of all that.....all you saw was a possible out for shifting the blame?

[Kavik]

buy from a competitor, that'll really stick it to 'em
I hear Hyundai has a great warantee...and unless you get a genesis, not enough power to break a tranny






I wonder why they feel the need to scrutinize these warantee claims so.....[/sarcasm]

[RedRoof2]

and unless you get a genesis, not enough power to break a tranny

...a 2.5i has enough power to break a tranny?   Oh dear.


I have no idea if the computer has datalogging capability on it.  It probably has peak values at the very least.  They may not be able to see an entire evening's worth of driving, but i'd bet there would be peaks in there for high values on RPM, Speed and all the other warranty-sensitive fields.  Who knows if OpenECU has access to these items.  I would imagine it would be a bit difficult to retrieve, due to the fact the car is so new.  If this were an 03 wrx, I'd say open source would probably be able to hack all of it.   On an 08 with the revised bodystyle and higher computing power, who knows what modes are locked out and accessible to the factory only.

Suffice to say, if you have nothing to worry about, then go get it serviced.   If you do have something to worry about, try changing the transmission oil and see if it helps the synchro's behavior.  If you take it to a dealership and attempt a warranty claim that gets denied, it will become part of your vehicle's service record and information on warranty-related repairs are accessible to every subaru dealership, anywhere.  Basically you'd be blacklisted from any further warranty-related repairs on that part of the vehicle.  I was a service writer for a time.  That's what I would have done if I were in their position.

[SideshowBob]

Sounds to me like you messed up good driving it hard and now you want Subaru to foot the bill?

You pay to play my friend, pay to play.

[Kavik]

^^that was the point I was trying to get at, but I was trying to avoid that particular phrase 

[skyphix]

Its not hard to hamfist a 3rd to 4th gear transition causing syncro failure, though.

Resting your hand on the shift knob while driving is warned against in the owners manual as well.

[SideshowBob]

You never rest your hand on a stick in a stick shift car, thought that was common knowledge?

Also, just double clutch the upshift, it's good for you and Vin Diesel approves.

[Kavik]

Extra-S, from Fred at Capitaland 

[Kavik]

FastFreddyRS, or just call 399-9999 and ask for Fred, sometimes quicker that way

[deadlydave]

...sooooo its kinda hard to dump in 4th gear lol..... all the other gears are fine

The Extra-S has worked minor miracles before.  Glad to hear it wasn't something worse though. 

[Photofixer]