newb questions..

[AudiTT]

So as some of you know I recently got a wrx. Some showed concern about modding it with 141k. I keep reading about vf39 turbos and how safe everyone says they are, even on highmilage cars. Now im notblooking for an allbout track car but just a fun daily withbsome passing power. What's the bottom end on the ej20 safe too? Car would be tuned at stm aswell. I come from a VW/AUDI back round and wit a 1.8t you can make good numbers asking as you can keep the tq down.

What im thinking is...

Vf39 turbo
Sti injectors(I have bosch 440s will they work?)
sti tmic
Turbo back exhaust
255 fuel pump

Would that make a safe daily on relativelyow boost?

[SideshowBob]

That should be fine. Compression should be checked in advance though.

The factory EJ pretty much kills itself with anything over 18psi for any extended period.

[spoolordie]

dude dont do it just yet get a full TBE and uppipe and a TUNE

you will enjoy stg 2 its great for what it is

unless your a die hard drag racer like RS25BG lol

but anywho RS25BG bought his with like 130kmi on the clock then did like ewg and vf39 later on it the motors life not sure the mileage and it lasted with him driving it till what like 177kmi

[SideshowBob]

dude dont do it just yet get a full TBE and uppipe and a TUNE

Agreed. It's cheap money and they are all mods you will do anyway if you decide later to go to a Turbo, Injectors, etc.

[TheBigChill]

 Hate if you will, but I say planning to immediately upgrade to a bigger turbo on the car you literally just bought, which happens to have 141k miles, might not be the best plan of action.  Then again, you were running a KO3 @ 22psi, so maybe you're not concerned with the longevity of your cars and associated parts.

 Why not do this modding in steps ? :  Do a TBE, 255 Walbro, and tune, and see how you feel after that.  The extra 50hp (give or take) might be just what you need.  If that doesn't do it for you, swap in the vf39, TMIC and injectors and re-tune.  BTW, 440's are the stock injectors for your WRX.


 Nothing about a VF39 makes it safer for high mileage cars when compared to other turbos (unless your other options are 20g, FP etc.), IMO.  It may change how and when the car gets torquey, and be nicer to your tranny because of that change, but overall when I think "longevity", I don't have the list that you produced coming to mind.  I'm not sure what your goals really are, as you're saying "safe daily on low boost", but the first desired mod you list is an upgraded turbo and everything to support it.  

  This thread is going to be chock full of opinions, so I'll give mine:  I'd be really nice to that WRX if I were you, because it's def high mileage, and while it MAY run for years and years in modded form w/ no issues, it's less likely than the other possibilities....  Pretty much everyone suggested that you look into brakes, tires, sways, etc.  All things that will make your car safer, and offer a enhanced driving experience when tearing-ass around.  
  My 2 cents = Stage 2, and some tire, brake and suspension / handling mods.

[AudiTT]

22psi on a k03s isn't uncommon if you research it. Giac basic tune let's you spike 24psi. I had allvthe Mods needed to support that psi. Was i pushing the turbo....yes I also had 2 spares.

My friends wrx with a cobb ap/hks bov/turbo back/ walked my tt on 16psi. I guess i just don't see the point in spending $400 to get tuned...when for $500 more I can have alot more power on tap and just run it safely at a lower boost. I don't know alot about the ej so that's why im asking.

What's stock compression supposed to be?

[deadlydave]

I don't know alot about the ej so that's why im asking.

Kudos for asking.  I'd characterize EJ205's as EXTREMELY oil-sensitive, and 'reliable but not over-engineered' compared to something like a 2jz-gte. 

[AudiTT]

Im going to do a compression test sense I need to do spark plugs anyway. What should stock compression be?

[TheBigChill]

22psi on a k03s isn't uncommon if you research it. Giac basic tune let's you spike 24psi. I had all the Mods needed to support that psi. Was i pushing the turbo....yes I also had 2 spares.

My friends wrx with a cobb ap/hks bov/turbo back/ walked my tt on 16psi. I guess i just don't see the point in spending $400 to get tuned...when for $500 more I can have alot more power on tap and just run it safely at a lower boost. I don't know alot about the ej so that's why im asking.

What's stock compression supposed to be?

     Maybe consulting an compressor efficiency island map will convince you.  At 22psi, you're riding the choke line of that compressor.....hard That turbo quickly leaves it's efficiency behind after 15 psi, and I mean quickly.  Also, the timing correction that results because of the high IAT's will likely cancel out much of the power that you are creating by blindly upping the boost w/ disregard to the CFM you're actually moving.   Running that K03-026 at 22 psi, I bet you had 10 psi at redline.   Anyways, I'll leave that alone, because you're here now and sporting a WRX, not a TT.

 If you're implying that throwing on: STi TMIC, VF39, larger Injectors, and a TBE all withOUT a tune is a better idea than: Basic TBE and tune, well, I'd have to say that sounds like a risky idea to me.

 Are you saying that your buddies WRX, while running TBE, Cobb AP tune and 16psi, walked your modded TT ?  If so, you're just proving the point that a TBE and tune might give you all the power you desire.  

EDIT:  130-150, I think is the range of acceptability, though more important, you want all #'s to be as close as possible.  Do the test w/ open throttle, good battery and warm motor.  Please double check those #'s though, or better yet, call a dealer.

[Nismonic]

I'm currently in the same boat you are in... I have a WRX thats 300 miles shy of 142k and I'm itching for more power. I bought it at 100k and it has been "stage 2" with varying exhaust setups since 110k miles. Its always been reliable but recently it has had a rash of little issues that have made me shy away from an STi turbo swap (I have all the parts sitting on my shelf in my garage). I got a retune earlier this summer when Dom came to town and he uncovered some boost issues that I was unaware of. Make sure you give your car a through "going-over" (maybe have someone local with a taxtrix cable do a few base line data logs) before you decide the time is right to swap. I could finish my turbo swap but until I get it back to running 100% where it was, I wouldn't want to add another variable to the equation... I think I've got it all figured out now but it really would have been a headache if I had just gone VF34/39 when Dom was here like I had planned but instead I just had my tune refreshed. Just take a look at Nasioc... there are tons of threads where some one picked up a new-to-them, used car and got straight to modding only to create a basketcase or blow a motor that they cant fix.

It looks like you are heading in the right direction in checking out your car but it also wouldn't hurt to drive it around for a few months before doing some serious mods just to make sure it doesn't have any hidden issues.      

[AudiTT]

     Maybe consulting an compressor efficiency island map will convince you.  At 22psi, you're riding the choke line of that compressor.....hard That turbo quickly leaves it's efficiency behind after 15 psi, and I mean quickly.  Also, the timing correction that results because of the high IAT's will likely cancel out much of the power that you are creating by blindly upping the boost w/ disregard to the CFM you're actually moving.   Running that K03-026 at 22 psi, I bet you had 10 psi at redline.   Anyways, I'll leave that alone, because you're here now and sporting a WRX, not a TT.

 If you're implying that throwing on: STi TMIC, VF39, larger Injectors, and a TBE all without a tune is a better idea than: Basic TBE and tune, well, I'd have to say that sounds like a risky idea to me.

 Are you saying that your buddies WRX, while running TBE, Cobb AP tune and 16psi, walked your modded TT ?  If so, you're just proving the point that a TBE and tune might give you all the power you desire. 

EDIT:  130-150, I think is the range of acceptability, though more important, you want all #'s to be as close as possible.  Do the test w/ open throttle, good battery and warm motor.  Please double check those #'s though, or better yet, call a dealer.

Thanks!

I just want to clear one thing up. I wasn't trying to discredit you at all. I knew very well that I had my poor little k03 begging for mercy. The wastegate was also cranked so I was at about 13psi. I know that's even worse for the turbo. But as I said...I had spares. Id get a wicked torque spike and thanks to the short gearing the car moved quite well for what it was. Its not easy to get the haldex add to spin all 4 but the tt did it many times. If I could have afforded to the tt would have had the Holset hx35 that's sitting in my shop and some rods.

Also I have zero intentions on running the wrx without a tune. I may be new the the subie but I'm not completely retarded lol

[RedRoof2]

Thanks!

I just want to clear one thing up. I wasn't trying to discredit you at all. I knew very well that I had my poor little k03 begging for mercy. The wastegate was also cranked so I was at about 13psi. I know that's even worse for the turbo. But as I said...I had spares. Id get a wicked torque spike and thanks to the short gearing the car moved quite well for what it was. Its not easy to get the haldex add to spin all 4 but the tt did it many times. If I could have afforded to the tt would have had the Holset hx35 that's sitting in my shop and some rods.

Also I have zero intentions on running the wrx without a tune. I may be new the the subie but I'm not completely retarded lol

Glad you had spare turbochargers for the TT.  Do that to a WRX and you'll need a spare shortblock and a couple spare 5mt's.  In fact, you probably are going to want to have those on hand regardless.  

WRX's do not impress me in stock form.  They're the most basic piece of shit you can find that has AWD and forced induction.  There is so much wrong with the basic package that you'll want to address, I"m surprised you don't go back to Audi.  You're running a suspension less sophisticated than a 92 Accord,  engine mounts and a shifter that feel as stiff as a bowl of oatmeal,  a transmission made from hersheys kisses wrappers made by Subaru's oompa-loompahs, wheel bearings destined to die at your mileage,  swaybar endlinks and swaybars themselves that are a bit flimsy,  along with the swaybar mount brackets.   We haven't even gotten to the engine bay yet, where the EJ20 can be potent, if you remove half the bullshit in there and halfway redesign the motor using parts that should have been installed on it from the factory if subaru was looking to design a quality powerplant instead of saving a shitload of money building one.  Things like an equal length header, phenolic resin intake manifold gaskets, parallel feed fuel rail,  higher volume oil pump and so on.  Then you can fix the leaky valvecover gaskets,  leaky power steering lines (common issue), the large amount of dive and lift engineered into the front control arms - requiring an ALK kit to have fun and the joyous stock steel heavy ass control arms made from the rusted anchor of a coastal freighter.  You'll have a tiny, torquey stock turbo that's fun for point and shoot but can produce enough torque to take your gearbox out and your choice of an easily-heatsoaked, top mount IC,  or the alternative of running 10+ feet of intercooler piping to a frontmount core.

Have fun.  You've chosen a great car.

[TheBigChill]

 I'm sure the low-end was fun w/ the lil' turbo, high boost and short gearing...always is.  Having a few turbos on stand-by is a good idea when realllyyy working a turbo like that.

 

Also I have zero intentions on running the wrx without a tune. I may be new the the subie but I'm not completely retarded lol

 Hahaha, Ok, awesome.  As long as you know.  I thought you planned on running all of that you listed un-tuned...

[TheBigChill]

Glad you had spare turbochargers for the TT.  Do that to a WRX and you'll need a spare shortblock and a couple spare 5mt's.  In fact, you probably are going to want to have those on hand regardless.  

WRX's do not impress me in stock form.  They're the most basic piece of shit you can find that has AWD and forced induction.  There is so much wrong with the basic package that you'll want to address, I"m surprised you don't go back to Audi.  You're running a suspension less sophisticated than a 92 Accord,  engine mounts and a shifter that feel as stiff as a bowl of oatmeal,  a transmission made from hersheys kisses wrappers made by Subaru's oompa-loompahs, wheel bearings destined to die at your mileage,  swaybar endlinks and swaybars themselves that are a bit flimsy,  along with the swaybar mount brackets.   We haven't even gotten to the engine bay yet, where the EJ20 can be potent, if you remove half the bullshit in there and halfway redesign the motor using parts that should have been installed on it from the factory if subaru was looking to design a quality powerplant instead of saving a shitload of money building one.  Things like an equal length header, phenolic resin intake manifold gaskets, parallel feed fuel rail,  higher volume oil pump and so on.  Then you can fix the leaky valvecover gaskets,  leaky power steering lines (common issue), the large amount of dive and lift engineered into the front control arms - requiring an ALK kit to have fun and the joyous stock steel heavy ass control arms made from the rusted anchor of a coastal freighter.  You'll have a tiny, torquey stock turbo that's fun for point and shoot but can produce enough torque to take your gearbox out and your choice of an easily-heatsoaked, top mount IC,  or the alternative of running 10+ feet of intercooler piping to a frontmount core.

Have fun.  You've chosen a great car.

 ^ Bbhahhahahha.  I like.  How did StylesRex get to be the "voice of dissension", with posts like this.

[AudiTT]

I'm sure the low-end was fun w/ the lil' turbo, high boost and short gearing...always is.  Having a few turbos on stand-by is a good idea when realllyyy working a turbo like that.

 
 Hahaha, Ok, awesome.  As long as you know.  I thought you planned on running all of that you listed un-tuned...

Th car will go to stm in rochester to be tuned. Sense they have done a few 9sec evos/dams and are just starting to branch out into subaru.

Redroof - the tt was great bcause it handled so well. The haldex awd system sucks....but its bulletbproof. But being as its primarily fwd.....its just not as fun. Even with the wrx being so slow I've always wanted one ....about 4yrs now. Even though mine isbin rough shape,  I'm still so siked to be in a platform I've always loved. I dream to one day have a roo like dans gt35r on youtube.

[idipskoalmint]

Glad you had spare turbochargers for the TT.  Do that to a WRX and you'll need a spare shortblock and a couple spare 5mt's.  In fact, you probably are going to want to have those on hand regardless.  

WRX's do not impress me in stock form.  They're the most basic piece of shit you can find that has AWD and forced induction.  There is so much wrong with the basic package that you'll want to address, I"m surprised you don't go back to Audi.  You're running a suspension less sophisticated than a 92 Accord,  engine mounts and a shifter that feel as stiff as a bowl of oatmeal,  a transmission made from hersheys kisses wrappers made by Subaru's oompa-loompahs, wheel bearings destined to die at your mileage,  swaybar endlinks and swaybars themselves that are a bit flimsy,  along with the swaybar mount brackets.   We haven't even gotten to the engine bay yet, where the EJ20 can be potent, if you remove half the bullshit in there and halfway redesign the motor using parts that should have been installed on it from the factory if subaru was looking to design a quality powerplant instead of saving a shitload of money building one.  Things like an equal length header, phenolic resin intake manifold gaskets, parallel feed fuel rail,  higher volume oil pump and so on.  Then you can fix the leaky valvecover gaskets,  leaky power steering lines (common issue), the large amount of dive and lift engineered into the front control arms - requiring an ALK kit to have fun and the joyous stock steel heavy ass control arms made from the rusted anchor of a coastal freighter.  You'll have a tiny, torquey stock turbo that's fun for point and shoot but can produce enough torque to take your gearbox out and your choice of an easily-heatsoaked, top mount IC,  or the alternative of running 10+ feet of intercooler piping to a frontmount core.

Have fun.  You've chosen a great car.

You never cease to make me

Th car will go to stm in rochester to be tuned. Sense they have done a few 9sec evos/dams and are just starting to branch out into subaru.

Why not drive a little further to Innovative Tuning who have been dealing with Subarus for a while?

[RedRoof2]

Hehe.  After spending enough time under the hood of subies, I guess i"ve gotten a little grumpy about them these days.


AudiTT - it's a great opportunity to work on the WRX yourself if you plan on keeping it simple - turboback, tune, IC and suspension/brake upgrade.   Once you start talking larger turbochargers, bigger injectors and more fancypants parts,  you're literally better off selling the WRX, buying an STi with an indestructible 6mt and giving that the catback and tune.  Of course, both cars have highly destructible motors but I guess you can't have everything.

Even the Evo guys can't have it all without a beefier clutch and Transfercase upgrade.   Then again, that's pretty much all they need to have it all

[SideshowBob]

AudiTT - it's a great opportunity to work on the WRX yourself if you plan on keeping it simple - turboback, tune, IC and suspension/brake upgrade.   Once you start talking larger turbochargers, bigger injectors and more fancypants parts,  you're literally better off selling the WRX, buying an STi with an indestructible 6mt and giving that the catback and tune.  Of course, both cars have highly destructible motors but I guess you can't have everything.

Even the Evo guys can't have it all without a beefier clutch and Transfercase upgrade.   Then again, that's pretty much all they need to have it all

He is right, although I have seen STi's with TBE's and a good tune go 150k miles no problems.

Like I said, my car was plenty fast with custom tune, TBE, uppipe, and K&N.

[AudiTT]

I plan to keep this car. So if that means swapping some stuff then so be it. Wont be the first time.

Right now im turboing my 95 Jetta

2l aba 8valve
270 cam
Tt adj cam gear
9.1 head spacer
C2 stg 2 tune
440cc injectors
Holset hx35 9cm exh housing

Did I mention I like doing things the hard way. Only way ya learn

[RS25BG]

do you what you want man...its your car...vf39 upgrade would be perfect...it would put you in right around 260-270awhp range.

but do the necessary steps to make sure your motor is going to be reliable for a decent amount of time. compression check it, should be anywhere from 135-160 anything below 120 is bad. they have to be close to one another too i forgot exactly how close though.

i bought my bug at 135kmi went stage one not a month later then stage 2, 2 weeks after that, ran stage 2 for about 10kmi then went with a vf39 upgrade. so from 145kmi to 181kmi on a vf39 at 18psi, modded stock injectors roughly flowing at 800cc, 255 fuel pump and an external wastegate towards the end of the motors life.

i ran stage 3 for over a year before the rings decided to give in and my cylinder 3 injector decided to dump massive amounts of fuel causing the valves to get gunked up and throwing a misfire. my advice to you, do not do the modded stock injector thing unless you send the injectors out to get flow tested.

440cc may be a little small for the 39...STi injectors will probably be ok.  just be prepared later on down the road that your motor will not last on a stage 3. im telling you this because my motor is completely torn down right now in my garage and now i get to wait and save money.
BTW the stock TD04 is shit, i hated that little pea shooter.

and redroof you did hit it on the nail but i'll be an ass and tell you i never gained alot of heatsoak with my TMIC and i had no turbo shield    

[AudiTT]

If I could make 230-250 awhp ill be jumping for joy.

[SideshowBob]

I got 235 ft lbs and 230 hp on a conservative dyno at 18 psi, the car was/is fast.

TBE with 3" HF Cat
Gutted Uppipe
K&N
Custom tune

[TheBigChill]

 If you upgrade the turbo, just do injectors then too.  I bet 440's on the tD04 @ WOT, is close to 100% IDC already.

[RS25BG]

If I remember the duty cycle on stage 2 with the 440's was 80-90, so yea you will be maxing the 440's...STi injectors or bigger.

230-250 you could hit with your TD04...so if that's all your looking for keep the TD...you can keep your good spool n have fun with it...39 spools a little later but when it gets into boost it was a lot of fun...guess I'm not even satisfied with that anymore cause I'm looking at a bigger turbo this time around.

[AudiTT]

I'm. Thinking I will go stg2 before winter and see how i still feel come spring. If I'm bored by then.....maybe ill upgrade the turbo. The other reason I thought the vf39 would be better is because of the later spool...thougt it be a little less harsh on the trans.