My unexpected FI build... An M62!

[hydrochloric]

I put "build" in quotes because yesterday, I picked up what was marked on Craigslist as a "Subaru 2.5rs 2.5gt Supercharger".  As it turns out, according to the seller, this is one of the original M62 Rimmer kits!





Now, I'm no good at knowing if that's true (since I was 9 when the kit was originally introduced) but it's going on my 2000 RS.





Now, also according to the seller, since the SC was designed for 98-99s, the ports in the mount plate are different than the IM ports on my 2000...  From what I've found (since I don't want to take it all apart until I'm installing it) the 2000 and up had slightly more oblong ports on the IM.  I'm trying to ascertain the amount of milling I need to do.

And this is the part I'm gonna get in trouble with, methinks...  The car has 238XXX miles on pretty much everything.  6.5PSI on a quarter-million mile engine....   Probably the kiss of death...   MINOR DETAIL!   

I've posted this on RS25, with some questions, too.

[FastfreddyRs]

You picked this up from mike k in lake george, who now drives the ACR viper!!

i know him and the kit well. the 98 heads where different then the 99

99-01 are the same, if you want to see how the holes will align stop in and pick up a intake manifold gasket for your motor.  part #14035aa383 I keep plenty in stock.

i also have 2 spare ej25 engine that will bolt into your car, so when your quarter million mile motors pukes.  or if you want one to build before installing the SC.

good luck!!

[deadlydave]

This looks like a cool damn project.  Best of luck!

If I didn't like being so good on gas I'd look for one of the Z3 supercharger kits that was adapted for the BMW M42 I-4.

[hydrochloric]

You picked this up from mike k in lake george, who now drives the ACR viper!!

i know him and the kit well. the 98 heads where different then the 99

99-01 are the same, if you want to see how the holes will align stop in and pick up a intake manifold gasket for your motor.  part #14035aa383 I keep plenty in stock.

i also have 2 spare ej25 engine that will bolt into your car, so when your quarter million mile motors pukes.  or if you want one to build before installing the SC.

good luck!!

He didn't mention it was an ACR, but he did explain the pipes had set it on fire once or twice.  And it was Glens Falls, but eh.

Yeah, I forgot to mention I'm doing the timing belt, seals and changing my leaky/rusty oil pan before this goes on...  From what I found (and what Mike told me) it was only the ports that were different, not the mounting holes?

[FastfreddyRs]

the ports and holes are different,
see how the bolt holes are all in a line on the plates.  0       0 0       0


your motor has them spaces like this     0 0         
                                                 0           0   

[hydrochloric]

That's not too much of a problem, assuming it will still physically fit.  The port shaping is going to be the more annoying part.  Thank god I've got access to a milling machine.

As for the spare motors...  When necessity rears its ugly face, maybe.  But being an unemployed college student means I don't have near the funds to build a motor...  As much as I'd like to.

[FastfreddyRs]

it shouldn't be to hard to mill, just pick up one of the intake gaskets i mentioned and you can lay it on there and have a perfect templete

[TheBigChill]

 I like where this is going.  Check those snout bearings at least.

[cazwrx187]

OH LAWD.  Subscribed

[hydrochloric]

This week I hope, I'm doing the timing belt and the oil pan, then the actual construction on this will be split with my other project.  I'm restoring an '84 Fiero, and before the flamethrowers start up, the reason is it's got a built 350 crate in the back!

Right now I'm in D.C. for my sister's birthday, so Monday I'm ordering a Z1 TB kit and hopefully I'll have that in by the end of the week...  But judging by all the work I've done on this car so far, it's not gonna be that easy.

I will check the snout bearings, but I have to be honest, I'm not sure what's acceptable and what isn't.  I know it spins freely, but beyond that...

[TheBigChill]

  Unless there is obvious binding, you wont be able to tell without disassembling the blower a bit.  The pulley might feel good, but if you have bad rotor bearings, the rotors will scour / gouge the front rotor plate.  These are easy to take apart, and you really should just do a basic inspect & rebuild before you get it mounted on your car.

 Like I said, unless a problem is apparent right from the get-go, most issues won't surface until you load the blower. 

 Basic rebuild kits are pretty cheap.   Oil, seals, snout coupler, snap ring, rotor bearings, maybe $150 tops.

[hydrochloric]

Took a quick glance today when I got back.

The front AND rear plates both have gouging, front from both rotors, rear only from one.  What's interesting is that while they have gouging, even turning by pushing on the rotors themselves gives no feel of scraping...  I suppose it's possible that it was rebuilt but not resurfaced, I don't know.  I also don't know about the body, I didn't actually pull anything apart yet.  When I have to snout off to check the coupler and clean the old oil out, I'll try spinning directly via the gears to tell if I can feel scraping.

I think I'm going to replace the coupler no matter what, it seems like it's guaranteed to be worn, and even the upgraded ones are inexpensive.  Certainly the oil, of course, but...  I'm not sure on the rotors.  While the parts are very cheap (even the non-ebay ones), the procedure involves some high precision work.  While I'm better suited to that than my friend who takes a hammer to everything that doesn't immediately work (and no, I'm not joking), I really have a case of the nerves about it...

[TheBigChill]

 Yes Sir, rotor alignment / timing is going to be critical.  After rebuilding, it's hard to check if the rotors are hitting each other without placing them inside SC housing, as they need support from rear rotor bearings.  It sounds like at one point that unit had pretty worn bearings in both the front bearing plate and the rotor bearing plate.

 With exact specs from Eaton, some feeler gauges, a press and hand tools, you could do it.  If you don't want try, maybe call Hunts Machine Shop.

[stylesrex]

how much for the 944?

[hydrochloric]

how much for the 944?

LULZ.  The Fiero is actually supposed to get sold, and hopefully turn a profit for the 944.  Since the DME is being the biggest pain in the ass of every automotive electronic thing I've ever touched, I want to just run double twin-barrel downdraft 55mm carbs, bolted straight to the head, and MSD ignition.  Shouldn't be too difficult, but the carbs alone are ~900.  I'm hoping I can have it done before the October MoHud HPDE at Lime Rock.

Yes Sir, rotor alignment / timing is going to be critical.  After rebuilding, it's hard to check if the rotors are hitting each other without placing them inside SC housing, as they need support from rear rotor bearings.  It sounds like at one point that unit had pretty worn bearings in both the front bearing plate and the rotor bearing plate.

 With exact specs from Eaton, some feeler gauges, a press and hand tools, you could do it.  If you don't want try, maybe call Hunts Machine Shop.

Well, called Hunts, and they don't do rebuilds.  They recommended D&W Diesel, who I found out do turbos and blowers, but not superchargers.  Now, so far as I know, "blowers" and "superchargers" are the same thing...  But he asked what it was, and even when I told him it was an M62 he said they couldn't do it.  No clue what "blowers" as they know them were referring to, but...  Whatever.  I thought of the Albany Speed Shop, but from what I know of them, they don't really do that sort of thing.  We're friends with Capitol Mechanics, so I suppose I could ask Mike to do it, I know he would.  They'll do anything as long as they can get specs.

It's not so much that I don't want to do it, or even that I don't have the tools.  It's just that I'm worried that if I try to rebuild it, I'll cock it up, and then I'll've eaten money on the parts (and possibly damaged it) and STILL have to have it rebuilt.

Alternately...  I could just do a more thorough check, and as long as there's no obvious grinding, I may just throw caution to the wind and bolt it on anyway, once it's mounts are done.   

[TheBigChill]

 
  Maybe call Eaton, and see if you can get some technical material.  I think the biggest challenge is getting the rotor backlash, rotor to housing clearance, and rotor flute separation correct and within spec.  To do this, you need specs.     

[hydrochloric]

Hmm....

It appears, as Eaton is a company that sells...  Well.  Everything, they want no end-user contact.  Everything they do is OEM, so I have to go to the manufacturer of my specific model...  Which.  Well.  Isn't possible, obviously.  ZZ Performance or Stiegemeier might do it or give specs, apparently they're both "Licensed Eaton Rebuilders."  I guess I'll give them a call tomorrow, but it's looking like my choice is to do it myself, or not do it all...

Basically, the reason I'm worried is this thread.  It's a bit more complicated than mine, since he's also reversing it, but it still shows the rebuild, and boy that looks high tolerance.  I like the "few small pieces of thin aluminum from Coca-Cola can" to space the rotors...  I have a feeling he's not got specs on this thing, either.

I will admit, it seems the more I re-read that thread, the more I feel like I could do it...  But it's also getting later, and everything looks doable when you're sleep deprived!

[spoolordie]

Boxersix is pretty damn phenomenal on working on anything performance related msg him

[TheBigChill]

 I was going to suggest that, but he usually seems very busy.

[spoolordie]

I was going to suggest that, but he usually seems very busy.

that's always good for business in a time like this

[hydrochloric]

Alright, some new info.

I haven't found a place that will rebuild the S/C.  I'm leaning towards a thorough check, and then an install.  I'll still change the oil and look at the coupler, though.  I also stopped by Capitaland Subaru and picked up the gaskets and some Fujibond from FastFreddy.

On a different note...  One of the things I'm fixing before this goes on is the Oil Pan, since the one on the car is rusty and leaky.  As such, I assumed that the thin white smoke that would waft out of the engine bay was oil, burning on the exhaust, because it only showed up when I'd given the engine a thrashing.  Recently, however, I'd taken the car into Warren Tire (they installed a wheel bearing backwards, and my new EBC rotors didn't fit, so I had them fix it) and the power steering was low...  I didn't think anything of it at the time, so I just topped it off.

Today, the wheel started stuttering when I turned it at slow speeds, which was exactly what it did when the fluid was low before...  And lo and behold, it was low again.  So clearly I have P/S fluid leak that's burning off on the headers/cat.  I took a cursory glance, but I don't see anything remotely wet from above the engine bay...  Any ideas where the leak might be?  I can't put it on the lift right now, the Fiero is over it and undrivable.  I think for now, I'll pick up a bottle of Stop Leak and try that, but if it gets worse...  Suffice to say, I'm also getting a fire extinguisher to keep in the car.  There's too many flammable fluids oozing out of my engine these days.

[FastfreddyRs]

chances are the PS leak is coming from the hoses running to the rack, or the lines themself on the rack.    Luck for you........ I have a complete PS system. lines, pump and rack off a 00 RS for cheap if you need anything.

nice meeting you today BTW.

[hydrochloric]

chances are the PS leak is coming from the hoses running to the rack, or the lines themself on the rack.    Luck for you........ I have a complete PS system. lines, pump and rack off a 00 RS for cheap if you need anything.

nice meeting you today BTW.

What with all the other issues I already have to fix on this car...  I'm gonna go the easy route and try the Lucas Stop Leak.  I know it's not leaking from the lines to the rack, which means it's either the rack itself, in which case the Stop Leak won't do anything useful and I'll have to replace it, and subsequently snap off the manifold bolts, and etc...

OR, it's leaking from one of the what, 5, 6 lines on the outside of the rack (Why?  Every other rack I've seen doesn't have any external lines...  WHY?!) and the Stop Leak should hopefully... Stop... Leaks.

As an update on the SC, I cracked it open, and the snout bearing is...  Stiff.  I wouldn't call it bindy, but it's certainly stiff.  Plus, it had NO OIL in it.  None of the surfaces were even gasketed!  At that point I knew I was pretty much screwed, and it turned out to be true.  The bearings are dead.  The rotors audibly rattle around, they bind in multiple spots and grind most of the way around.  Well...  Shit.  I can almost guarantee I can't rebuild it too, since I couldn't even figure out how to remove the rotors...  On the plus side, coupler is brand new.

So tomorrow, I'm going to talk to Mike at Capitol Mechanics.  I already have to ask them a question about brake lines, since today I discovered I may have been using the wrong flare on EVERY LINE I'VE RUN ON THE FIERO.  I'm just a tad pissed about that.  Anyway, I have a feeling Mike will rebuild it for me, for a reasonable price.  I know of at least two other places that will also, but the shipping to them is gonna be more than the rebuild for that weighty pig.

So, for now....  Stalled.

[TheBigChill]

 The M62 can be rebuilt, and should be, as long as there's no significant rotor / flute damage.  Do itttttttt.

[hydrochloric]

It is getting rebuilt...  Somehow.  Like I said, tomorrow I'm going to talk to Capitol Mechanics.  Hopefully they'll do it, because if they can't, my next best option is sending it to Michigan, where ZZ Performance is (although they deal mostly with Cobalt/IONs, so they might not be able to do it) or Missouri, where Stiegemeier is.  They, I know, can do it.  The downside is the added cost of shipping.  I would estimate that the bare M62 weighs ~35lbs.  UPS and FedEx quote that at about $30 each way, USPS quotes 50, minimum!  Somewhere between 60-100 dollars just to get the thing there and back...  Added to everything else, it ends up being over a quarter of what the car is worth.

...not that that stopped me when the wheel bearings needed changing. 

So, I'll hope Capitol can do it.  If not, it'll probably go to Stiegemeier, although I'll check with ZZ Performance and see if their price isn't a bit lower.

Oh, and Fred, it was good to meet you too.  Hopefully I'll see you again soon, but not with part numbers in hand!